I thought of this method of tracking my rolls to watch visually what was happening during a hand in practice. It doesn't require moving chips properly (betting and paying out) but gives very valuable information. I ALSO TRACK IN ROLL RECORDER, but this a very visual method that barely adds time to rolling.
Below is an actual 45 roll hand I completed (after a very frustrating practice session of short rolls), and I think it shows a lot about what is going on during the hand. As much as I wanted to remove my craps shots from the picture, I kept it honest and I know they developed late in the hand and I was trying to make adjustments.

Method:
- The currently set point is below the place line, currently the green chip below the right side of the 6. Other active shots (Come / Place) are placed on the place line, Points made are moved to the top place line; inactive shots are in the middle such as a roll that wasn't a come bet so isn't money at risk is in the middle.
- Shots are placed left for off axis, center for on axis, right for hard ways. In the picture, for the 6, I had 2 on axis noted on the top because they were won points, 1 off axis shot (red bottom left), and 2 hard ways noted by red and green on lower right.
- C/E/7 are kept track of in the field with the 7's kept below the 11.
White chips are used for a non-winning shot, Red chips are used for a hit, Green chips are used for $10 hits/losses such as a come out hit on an active come bet (4 shown on 4, 5, 2@6), for loss of come for a crap (shown for 1@2, 3@3, 5@12) and for come out 7's and Yo's, and for the final 7 (shown are 2 Yo's, a come out 7, and a final 7 out). If I place a bet, I use an ON lammer so that I don't count a win but would count the loss in the final tally. If I don't have a come bet up, I'd have white chips on the C/E so I don't account for a loss/gain.

Actual Hand highlights:
My initial come out was a 2/4=6 noted by the chip at top center of the 6. When I make the point, that white is moved to the top and the shot that hit is now a RED on the place line if I had a come bet up, or would go inside the box if not.
My next shot was a 1/3=4 with a come bet noted by the white chip left on the 4, but it was initially on the place line and moved up after I'd had a hit on it.
My overall results are obviously positive with 22 hits, 4 come out hits. But I am disappointed with the number of late craps and 18 off axis box numbers, 29 off axis in total that need to be worked on. I noted that although my 5's were more on axis, my 9's were more off. My 4s and 10's were all of, but 6's and 8's were better. I can use Smart Craps to analyze more, but I can now take 30 seconds to analyze what's in front of me and determine next actions.

To quickly know what my win/loss was (I play $10 pass/come at 3x4x5x odds), I first offset all of the green chips (9 losing, 8 winning so net -$10), count the come/pass line bets active (all six @ 3x4x5x) for a net -$300, and add the hits (my 3x4x5x odds play gives $70 per hit) so 22 hits = $1,540. My net for this hand was roughly $1,230 and I know this very quickly without spending the time playing out the real bets and payouts. It adds less than 2 seconds per roll from the time I pickup the dice to the next pick up of the dice.

A couple of other comments:
- I usually only keep one bet on the place line so I know what my last shot was but got lazy here and it shows multiple active shots but there is truly only one pass/come but up on any number.
- I would also keep an adjustment stack of chips to account for other things happen like a come out 7 to account for a loss of $60 come bets on the line or perhaps the $60 paid to put them back up (oops, my net was actually $1,170). If you double dip, you could keep the extra wins here as well.
- Those are my Alaskan Malamutes on the chips. They're also in the center of the layout. :D

Hopefully I wasn't confusing, just trying to throw out what IMHO is a great practice accounting and analysis tool.
Attached files

Replies:

Posted by: Finisher on June 19, 2015, 4:57 pm

My I am toooo OLD for this .That was confusing let alone just to much to think about . It just seemed to be a distraction when throwing . Maybe 20 yrs. ago it would have worked .
I just use a roll sheet and can see at a glance how the numbers are doing .
I use the old Roman math at bottom to record the numbers so it looks like a chart at a glance .
I have never timed my recording of rolls but there is time spent in real casino to get dice back to you so don't worry about those few seconds .
If you ever get to Phoenix Az stop by and take a look at my roll sheet and you could time me and may change the way I do it .
Nice Pic. Tho.
When I am at a casino playing I see some placing their chips to record each win and were it is and think that is a lot of work . I prefer to have fun and get to try not to think about much while throwing .
I was rolling not to long ago with ACPA WHO RECORDS EVERY ROLL WHILE PLAYING . No heat at all about that.I am thinking about trying that .But then again I do this for the enjoyment first .Winning is FUN .
Hope you get more responses that like your idea .
Good Rolling.

Posted by: TheLion on June 19, 2015, 5:57 pm

I really like the pic

I'm lucky to have a few friends that count the rolls for me

My goal is to do an "80" as the 75 I did last June in LV is my all-time high

But, records are made to be broken

Posted by: HardNine on June 19, 2015, 6:51 pm

Finisher, I've often wondered about recording the rolls at the casino, I just do a quick note in my phone after my hand, but can't capture the actual rolls to see on axis and what not, so I do a simple count with the chips without details. Don't know about Phoenix, my table came from there, and have a brother and uncle, but since my mom moved back to Chicago area from Sun City, I don't go out there much.

Lion, heard of your recent trip, sounds like it was more than a little successful. Will shoot with you again one of these days.

Happy rolling

Posted by: Dr Crapology on June 19, 2015, 9:40 pm

Here is an idea I picked up from Skinny and The Big Skinny.

Since there are two rows in the chip rail, when I buy in I put all the chips in the chip rail in the row nearest to me. I them play The Big Skinny with pass line and come bets and occasionally a place bet on the 6 and /or 8.

I make mental note of 6 spots in the chip rail row away from me---one spot for a payday on the 4, one for the 5, 6, 8 9, and 10. With every payday I set a $1 chip in the designated mental spot for the number just hit. If I have a repeater I will then have two $1 chips on that spot. If I should hit a particular box number 5 times that spot will have a red chip. You get the idea. It is real easy to count how many pay days I have for each box number and to also count the total number of hits. I usually quit counting after 8 paydays. Now it is time to get real serious and focus without counting.

During the first 8 paydays, I do not press or I make a very small press on the number just hit. If I am hitting a certain box number frequently, I will be a little more aggressive. After 8 paydays it is press and pull.

For me it is easier than what you describe. With that in mind I do think this is a great thread and hope others can use the various ideas that might be posted. Thank you for posting this. I'll take any critique any one may have.

Doc

PS---How is the arm???

Posted by: DoughBoy on June 20, 2015, 12:40 am

Doc; I use the same counting method and find it very effective. TBS and the hardways. I love it.

Posted by: Mr Finesse on June 20, 2015, 1:08 am

Good post, thanks.

Posted by: HardNine on June 20, 2015, 2:42 am

Doc,

The arm is in great shape, a small scab from the entry, but blood work shows I'm clean! :D Thanks for asking, you and Rose are great family!

Posted by: OneMoonCircles on June 20, 2015, 6:59 am

I use the form from Sharpshooter's book, modified. Simple, accurate and I get all the info I need and can look back 7 years. It takes me about 15 minutes after my
practice to analyze the data.

OMC

Posted by: Finisher on June 20, 2015, 7:29 am

Hardnine One time I walked up to a table and there was a guy who was keeping track of the numbers . After a few rolls he said out loud that the 8 had not been rolled in 43 rolls . I said to him that I would bet on it since it should be coming up . The point was 6 so with 6.00 at risk I was not worried . But after 4 more rolls with no 8 I said to him are you sure you did not miss it .He just laughed and then the 8 rolled and I said to him that I almost started to sweat .LOL .
Good Rolling. :) :)

Posted by: NickatNight on June 20, 2015, 1:29 pm

I Buy in for $$$$---I cash out when done----$$$..More then buy in--I did good....Less then buy in --I did not do good.! :lol:
During practice I hand record my two dice outcomes. Other then that...Practice-practice -practice...Who says that? Dom or Bob??

Posted by: Mr Finesse on June 20, 2015, 2:41 pm

:D :D :D