Hey all. Quick report on my Vegas trip and for any doubters out there proof that the GTC way works. My wife and I stayed at the Venetian (she likes the poker room). Got in Friday, no playing I was too tired. Started my Saturday session on a $15 table, and stayed that way for the weekend since I liked it better than the $10 tables I've been playing. My dice, unfortunately, were looking just ok not great and I bet conservatively as a result the whole weekend because frankly my shot is not where I need it to be (yet!!) to be able to bet the way I want to bet. I had a few rolls in the teens, a few point 7s, and 1 roll in the 20s. I have to say though one of the most valuable things that even allowed me to stay at the tables long enough to be able to roll the number of times I did was use of the 5 count. Taking Saturday morning as an example, I take my position at SR1 at a $15 table with about 4 shooters. I bought in right as the player to the right of me finished so dice got passed to the guy at SL1. 5 counted him and wouldn't you know the 6th roll was a 7 out BUT I had $15 on the come so while everyone is getting their pass line and odds bets taken away, I'm getting paid!! This same scenario played out no less than 4 times the rest of the weekend. I would 5 count a CF'er, place a come bet, next roll 7 out and I'm collecting chips. This also allowed me to get the dice 4-5x during a playing session whereas before GTC I would have been lucky to have 2 or even 1 because I was betting on every shooter. Now, there were a couple shooters where I five counted them, placed a come, got on a box number, and then the CF'er sevened out or I placed a come and the CF'er would throw a 3 or 12 but I took it all in stride because I was not betting on every shooter, just the one's that passed the 5 count. Now, on to some more practice sessions to get my dice looking the way I want them to look so I can start betting the way I want to bet . . .

Replies:

Posted by: Dr Crapology on December 10, 2014, 12:51 pm

Jim T--You are correct the GTC way can be of fantastic help in saving you money (making you money), even with the occasional situation where you get up on a shooter and he will take down your come bet with a craps number or he sevens out in a couple of rolls with out hitting your number. AND then there is the chicken feeder (CF'er for short) who will hit your number 3 or 4 times and you will make a profit.

The five count will not make you a winner in and by its self, it simply works to save you some money so that you will be at the table to make money on yourself.

Rose and Doc

Posted by: Chuco on December 11, 2014, 4:44 am

Amen to that Rose and Doc!

And I'd like to add:

The 5 Count will also identify possible rhythmic shooters / rollers. I have benefitted from this numerous times personally!

The 5 count is also incredible for winning the 'risk time' vs. 'body time' battle against the casinos as well!

Posted by: Skinny on December 11, 2014, 5:48 am

Chuco,

You make some excellent points about the 5-Count. In fact the very first article I wrote for Frank was on this exact subject. I went into quite a bit of detail in that article on the topic, part of which was directly on the points you made in your post. If you want to read that article click on the following link.

http://www.goldentouchcraps.com/skinny0001.shtml

Posted by: Jim T on December 11, 2014, 4:48 pm

Skinny:

It's so funny but this article was exactly the one I was thinking about over the weekend too when I realized how I had actually extended my time at the table. I remember reading it right after my first class last October because a number of my classmates were somewhat critical of the 5-count to the tune of "well the 5-count still means you lose money on the other shooters" and I remember thinking nothing in the 5-count says you WILL make money on the shooters you bet on after it (as I found out this weekend) just that you will ELIMINATE 57% of the shooters you would normally bet on and thus preserve your bankroll for longer play (also as I found out this weekend).

Posted by: Skinny on December 11, 2014, 5:32 pm

Jim T,

That is great. I am so happy you read the article, found it helpful and really understand the precepts of the 5-count. I understand it can be a confusing concept to those hearing about it for the first time. That is one of the reasons I wrote several articles on the 5-count. They can be found on the main page of the public GTC website at: http://www.goldentouchcraps.com/skinny.shtml.

The 5-count is one of the reasons I decided to take my first class with GTC. I read one of Frank's books that explained the 5-count. As a mathematician it made sense to me and piqued my interest. I was a random roller at that point but I started using the 5-count because I enjoyed playing craps and was looking to find a way to improve my chances. After several sessions, like you, I saw first hand the benefits of the 5-count. Since I was not a controlled shooter yet, I would sometimes play for a long time.

I remember a session, playing for 12 hours straight, staying at the same table. I watched my chip rack go up and down but I never lost my initial buy in. Others were not as fortunate. I saw numerous players come, go broke and leave while I was still there. I saw some leave broke, come back later with more money and continue to lose that as well. All the while I was still playing and not betting on those early seven out players (57%). In the end I quit out of sheer exhaustion. But my bankroll was intact and was actually up a few bucks (very few) when I finally called it quits.